Meio termo entre 3.5 e 4.0

[mguatimosim]

bom, pelo que eu vi, isso não foi discutido aqui.



Desde q a wizard's lançou a v 4.0 de D&D (d20 system), muitos jogadores de longa data se viram muito insatisfeito com o caráter simplista e limitante da tão esperada edição.

De olho nesse público, a editora PAIZO iniciou no final de 2009, uma sequência de publicações que mudou pouco o sistema 3.5 mas tentou (e foi bem sucedida) balancear tudo aquilo do 3.5 que quebrava completamente o jogo.

Classes de prestígio, se seu objetivo é maximizar o potencial do seu personagem, não são mais escolhas óbvias uma vez que as classes bases são tão boas que você não sabe se parar de evoluí-la é vantajoso.

Monstros, cálculo de XP, itens mágicos, feats, magias, etc, tudo isso retrabalhado.

Guias para conversão de personagens 3.5 para pathfinder.

Lista de complementos de outras editoras (principalmente complementos de 3.5 da wizard's) que são compatíveis com pathfinder (ainda que eles digam isso, se vc quer um jogo realmente balanceado, é melhor que apenas livros da coleção pathfinder sejam usados).

Aventuras prontas (adventure paths) para mestres que não fazem questão/têm tempo de criar o próprio mundo/historia...



enfim, mta coisa bacana.



eu e meus amigos adiquirimos os livros pela internet e estamos jogando a quase 1 ano... veredicto? melhor RPG d20 de todos, disparado!



abrass



http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG

[Technomancer]

Pathfinder é bem decente, o que o 3.5 deveria ser, mas por outro lado a maioria do povo que fala mal de 4e não jogou o suficiente ou não acompanhou a evolução do mesmo.

[mguatimosim]

[quote name='Technomancer' timestamp='1301562259' post='2478653']

Pathfinder é bem decente, o que o 3.5 deveria ser, mas por outro lado a maioria do povo que fala mal de 4e não jogou o suficiente ou não acompanhou a evolução do mesmo.

[/quote]



sim, eu concordo em parte.

acontece que o sistema do 4.0 é completamente diferente, e, por isso, não proporciona a experiência de jogo que as pessoas que jogaram 3.0 e 3.5 esperam.

o pathfinder veio solucionando isso... mas sim 4.0 num é ruim, só num é o d&d q tamos acostumados.



pra quem num conhece, vale mto à pena dar uma olhada <img src='http://forum.hangarnet.com.br/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[Kallahad]

Explica melhor...pode colocar pontos principais do Pathfinder que foram alterados em relação à ed. 3.5? Eu jogo 3.5 e sabemos que existem coisas quebradas que podemos verificar em builds de druida, por exemplo, como isso foi endereçado?



Abraço.

[mguatimosim]

=>Rebalanced XP. The amount of xp to gain levels has been re-adjusted to better mesh with the character wealth by level charts. This means that after 5th level, it requires more than 1000 * level to get the next level. There are also fast and slow xp charts now (x2/3 and x4/3 required/level)

feats at every odd level



=>Trip, sunder, etc. have been re-balanced into combat maneuvers that utilize a Combat Maneuver base (usually the same a BAB). When trying to trip a person, you make a Combat Maneuver Attack vs that persons Combat Maneuver Defense. This works like attack vs AC. It's a much improved system and the advanced players guide adds some additional maneuvers. CM: trip, sunder, grapple, bull rush, disarm, overrun, drag, reposition, dirty trick, steal.



=>Favored Class: No xp penalty for multiclassing, but a level in your favored class is worth 1 hp or 1 skill point (the APG has additional options such as +1/2 point of damage to fire spells)



=>0th level spells: Now are more like at-will abilities. Wizards/Clerics/Druids memorize as normal, biut casting them doesn't make the caster forget the spell. Sor has infinite 0th level slots but limited known.

item creation and spells no longer have xp costs: It's all gold now!!!



=>Feats like power attack are now less flexible (-1/N levels) but better value. Cleave is actually useful. There are no dead feats (toughness included)



=>Barbarian

Rage powers - about as powerful as a feat, but used only during rage.

Keeps d12 (the only class whose bab != hd)



=>Bard

Bardic Knowledge isn't broken. All knowledge checks even if untrained. Add 1/2 level to trained knowledge skills

Better/more clear rules on types of performances that count for bardic performance. Enumerated list of perform skills.

Better performance abilities



=>Cleric

Domain Powers are increased in power and have level-dependent effects (usually a second ability that kicks in at 6-8th)

Turning is now channeling. A 30' burst of pos/neg energy that does 1d6/odd level. Feats allow you to selectively include/exclude people. Channel feats as normal (but the feats are pretty different)



=>Druid

All shapechange spells are more precise in what abilities you gain. No more hard decisions.

Can substitute animal companion for a cleric domain (and domain spell) Air, Animal, Earth, Fire, Plant, Water, or Weather



=>Fighter

At 4th and ever 4th level a fighter can trade out a bonus feat he has for a new one as long that old feat isn't being used as a prerequisite.

Bonus will save vs fear

Bonuses on weapon groups (5th lv +4 lvs). Stacks like ranger's favored enemy bonus

Reduce armor check penalty to shields (3rd lv +4 levels

19th level dr 5/- when armored or wielding a shield

20th super critical effects with one weapon type



=>Monk

Is actually useful now

Flurry of blows, treat as two weapon fighting with no off hand and bab of monks levels instead of 3/4. Can use CM instead of attacks.

After 3rd level, use monk level instead of bab for CM.

bonus feat at 1,2,6,10,14,18 from a much smaller list than fighters (improved trip and the like)

No multiclass penalty



=>Paladin

Channel energy (see cleric)

Can have a holy spirit that buffs weapons instead of a mount

Smite Evil much more powerful (lasts the entire fight) and hurts evil dragons and outsiders more.

Lay on hands does fixed dice/level.

Mercies. Additional effects from lay on hands (cure disease, reove curse etc)

More aura abilities (bonus to self and smaller to all allies within x feet)

no multiclass penalty



=>Ranger

Gets to pick combat style feats. Two weapon track or bow track. APB adds crossbow track

Instead of animal companion, can add damage/to hit vs favored enemies to allies.

Can have a quarry, a person/thing he chases that he can track at speed and gets bonus damage/to hit. At 20th, attacking quarry can be a death effect



=>Rogue

levels 2-10 get smaller rogue abilities. 10-20 as normal

20th level death sneak attack

skill consolidation makes 8+int even more powerful



=>sorcerer

Actually useful now

bloodlines add more abilities than domains - including automatic spells known.

except for 1 bloodline, no familiar

d6 hd



=>wizard

d6 hd

all item creation feats

instead of familiar, can have arcane bond that allows casting of spell in spellbook 1/day even if you haven't memorized it. you must be able to cast it.

Specialization is usable. You must use two slots to memorize a spell from an opposed school. Two charges from a wand etc. There is a generalist school, but the special schools abilities + extra spell make them worth it.



=>Encounter level -- better rules for determining CR. Each monster is worth fixed xp amount to be divided evenly among players. Allows for fine tuning.



=>Advanced Players Guide - 6 more core classes and alternative class and racial traits to those in the core rulebook.



=>Alchemist - bombs, potions, dr hyde mr jekle abilities



=>Caviler - Mounted Kinght -- similar to paladin in devition to a concept but not always LG. Gains teamwork skills.



=>Summoner - Arcane caster with summon special abilities + point buy summoned/spiritual companion that is the main focus of the class



=>Witch - Arcane caster getting power through a familiar. Drastically different spell list than wizard (cure spells!) Has hexes (one of which acts like true resurrection)



=>Inquisitor - a different take on a holy fighter than paladin



=>Oracle - a different take on divine caster. Has dramatically different 'domain'-like abilities



=>Traits - Mini-feats (+1 to hit when in surprise round and the like) that are more often story hooks than abilities (in general 2 at first level)



=>Hero points - rare points that allow for astonishing effects (stave off a spell for 1 round. Not die for 1 round after reaching <0 etc)



=>Alternate kits for other core classes (slightly different monk abilities (drucken ki). Slightly different fighter abilities (archer kit) etc.



=>Teamwork feats - Great bonuses that only apply if your friends also have them



What this means:



Item creation changes. Expect your players to actually use these feats now. You wizard will craft wands, etc. He will make items for 1/2 price. Be prepared to deal with it.

CM -- Expect people, monks especially, to opt for tripping/grappling etc since it's worth it now and much easier to calculate

Sor,Mnk,Ftr fixes. People may stick with these classes since they don't suck anymore

No multiclass penalties - Expect more MC characters. Perhaps even triple/quad classes ?

Capstone abilities -- Alternatively, no multclassing since 20th level ability is so nice for each class

Animal Sidekick alternative -- No more useless mount/animal companion if you run primarily dungeon crawls.

Shape change -- DM's life is easier

Channel Energy - This will come into play a lot more. Clerics can heal a large number of people using this ability. So can paladins. They can also burn a large number of zombies. Plan accordingly

My laptop is almost out of power, so I'm finishing before this quits on me...



TL;DR

Paizo has managed to take virtually every aspect of 3.0/3.5 and tweak/rewrite it to work faster and be more balanced. They managed to bring choice and variation of abilities to every single class (some more than others still). With the Advanced Players Guide they introduce 6 classes that are all balanced and playable with the 11 core classes, giving 17 core classes.

[shinigami]

é 3.725

[Rei]

Mudou esquema de rage e wildshape. No 3.x eram tantas x/dia igual a 3+ bonus de con. Agora vc pode entrar em rage sempre que quiser, mas o total de vezes por dia é 3+bonus de con. Acho que a mesma regra se aplica ao wildshape.



Eu gostei das mudanças. Trazendo mais equilíbrio ao 3.x



Mas eu sou player de quarta edição =P.

[SiLent]

Eu era um dos ferrenhos defensores da 3.5, sempre reclamando da 4e, dizendo como ela era limitada, bla bla bla... porém depois de anos jogando-a, tudo que posso dizer é 4E > 3.5 e qq variação da mesma. É simplesmente melhor, mais prático, mais divertido...você acha que está limitado a meia dúzia de poderes, quando na verdade na 3.5 que estávamos limitados. Um guerreiro não fazia nada além de Atacar X vezes por turno, no máximo variando com trip, sunder e/ou disarm. Na 4E, vc tem zilhões de poderes diferentes, que te dão outro zilhão de opções táticas, etc.

[mguatimosim]

Eu concordo que a 4.0 num eh pior... Apenas diferente...

Mas nao seja tao ávido para dizer que todas as variacoes de 3.5 sao piores sem nem conhecer...



Se vc ler o core rulebook do pathfinder sem preconceitos, verá que esse jogo estrategico do 4.0 é extremamente presente no PF tb.



Baixem e leiam... Se gente suficiente animar, eu mestro uma mesa de PF no Firecast (ferramenta para se jogar rpg online).

[Kallahad]

Pô...eu até animo jogar, Guaicow. Mas assim...ainda vou ter q baixar e acho que só poderei próximo mês.



Ademais, nerfaram clérigo? Eu curto muito jogar de clérigo.